A section for fan speculation on all the what-ifs/could-have-beens that the series didn't cover. (Newest entries are at the top.)
Last update: April 2010 (Donna C's submission from April 2009...oops...this is how huge my backlog is! :/ )
Interesting theories, here!
Having just downloaded the series, seeing it for the first time since the early nineties, I thought I'd throw in my speculations.
I like the idea that the thirteenth treasure would be either a) the sword, b) the compass, or c) a product of Ren's determination.
Bloth would either a) succumb to DW by happenstance in trying to stop Ren, or b) reform and help the Wraith in some way, before perishing at the hands of the DD. Bloth gets his due either way, but he could have the option of dying while trying to atone.
As for our heroes... I can't see Ren and Niddler splitting up; if Ren ascends the Octoponian throne, Niddler would remain with him -- to chow down the royal lifestyle!
I'm unique in that I don't want any of the characters to hook up. It's more that their lives are currently entwined, but will take them in different direction when the Quest is complete. Also, I can't bear the thought of anyone left out of any resulting relationship (Ren/Tula, Ioz/Tula, Ioz/Ren, etc.) I do believe they all love each other (we've seen how they all act together) and I concur with all the Ren/Tula moments (notably, "The Beast and the Bell," when he rubs her cheek) but to me, that's just life on the high seas rife with adventure! You love your companions -- you probably sleep with them -- but it's not quite the same kind of romantic love we're accustomed to.
In that vein: Tula would return to Andorus, and Ioz? He would sail on for new adventures -- and outrun Joat and every turn.
- Donna C.
I wouldn't doubt that the other half of the sword that Primus gave to Ren is or contains one of the treasures. Otherwise, why present a broken blade to begin with?
Everyone else fights with (generally speaking) undamaged weapons, so what makes this special? If it were just a rusty broken sword, it would never have been emphasized to begin with.
You know I can't actually speculate as to what happens o.O just like everyone else I have plenty of ideas and thoughts about the series after episode 21 but my main concern is to pose a few questions for those of you that are better with words than I am ;)
First of all many of us have drawn a comparison with Star Wars but I think maybe we are missing it! We all agree that Ren and Tula share some kind of connection but even I don't think they should end up romantically involved! Tulas past is a mystery for the most part don't some of you believe there is a possibility that she too could be an heir of Octopon? Primus could very well have hidden away a daughter that was born after his journey began to find the 13 Treasures of Rule! This directly borrows from Star Wars and as the characters are very similar it makes it plain to see they are siblings and it is Ioz that would eventually end up romantically involved with Tula :)
I also believe that the series could have continued for several seasons before finding the 13th Treasure of Rule.
I think that Ren would end up with a princess of Octopon. Little was revealed of Octopon during the series and I think that the Rebirth of Octopon would have been an important part of the series and would have been if the series had continued!
There is so much to speculate at here and I can't begin to suggest where the series was going!
As for Bloth I think he and the Maelstrom would have eventually been devoured by the Dark Dweller but this wouldn't be the end of our old foe! I believe he and the Maelstrom would return as servants of the Dark Dweller, More ruthless than ever before!
In the end I think that it would come down to a Worldwide effort, with all of Mer's Kingdoms united under the Flag of Octopon against the Dark Dweller, Bloth and the Maelstrom!
Te 13th Treasure of Rule? Well what if its been on the Maelstrom all along (or is the Maelstrom)?!
Just dropping some thoughts in there for fun ;) anyway this was fun maybe I will try my hand at writing some fan fiction and flesh out my little synopsis ;) I do intend to give some of the die hard fans out there some new material to chew on and have decided I will begin work on an updated RPG for the D20 system! I know there was still a lot of Mer to be explored and think that it should be! I will do my best to make a quality product all will be proud to have! Let you know how it all goes somewhere else if I can find an appropriate section to post in ;)
Thanks for the Rant Rights, hope to make all proud someday ;)
- Doc (web)
Though I was 11 (and a little older than the most of the viewers) when PODW came out, my brother and I watched it faithfully on Saturday mornings and then on Cartoon Network when it aired. We made up our own endings, somewhat combined with Nintendo's "Legend of Zelda" series with Hyrule making up a rather large northern continent on Mer. Our 13th treasure was the son of Ren and Tula--whom we named Tamerlan--yes, after the conqueror descendant of Genghis Khan--and our ending was perhaps a little hokey: Ren and Tula rule Octopon with Tamerlan as prince and heir apparent, and Tamerlan's younger sister who showed ecomancer abilities went to live with Tula's kin on Octopon. Before the ending, we had some pretty complicated plot twists: Primus had a second wife on Hyrule and sired two children on her: Adaran and Kalara. When Adaran came of age (he was about 2 yrs younger than Ren) he and Primus went out to seek the remaining treasures, only to be captured by Bloth. Adaran was killed and Primus escaped. However, Adaran was a "sacrificial lamb" so to say, Bloth having heard a prophecy/prediction that only the son of Primus could slay him. So Bloth thought himself safe for a little while until Ren showed up. Hence the need for secrecy. After they Ren, Ioz Tula and Niddler arrive and Hyrule and find the 9th treasure and Ren discovers his stepmother and step sister, Tula finds herself pregnant and decides to stay on Hyrule (also discovering that her people originated on this continent) to have her child in relative safety and learn more about her people's history. However, Ren and the others do not necessarily sail away short handed: Ren's step sister decides to take up adventuring with them and Ren over the course of our stories learns more about his father from Kalara. The 10th treasure was on a snowy frozen land, the 11th took them underground, the 12th I can't recall what we had in mind for that and the 13th I already discussed. Never had an ending for Ioz, but had Niddler return to Pandawa and open a beach front hotel to bring tourism to an economy destroyed by the now non-existant slave trade. As our "prophecy" stated: Ren kills Bloth more by happenstance than by skill--he bumps him overboard the maelstrom into a patch of Dark Water. Mantus took over but had a hard time being a Hobbes-like "leviathan" on the Maelstrom and the crew gradually broke up. I forget the ending we wrote for Morpho, but I think it entailed some sort of magical backlash. We got pretty detailed with our stories (I was a junior in high school, my brother in 8th grade) and since I was learning Spanish, we even made up a fictional languages and cultures and governments. Yes, I did have a life, lol. I was competing in Class A shows with two horses and had a boyfriend, but my brother and I did find time to work on these plotlines. They were about two years in the making (my 9th to 11th grades, his 6th to 8th). Honestly, I think we put more time and effort into writing our own ending than the show writers put into the real show. I'm not bragging, but it would have been interesting to see any or all of our predictions come true.
Ok, this is a lot of fun!! Im Argentinian, and have been watching this awesome cartoon since the early CN days. I'd never thought there were so many people who loved it as much as I did!! Like all of you, my heart was split open when they took them off the air. Gosh, I feel so old... I was a kid back then and a professional now, yet every now and then hide from everyone just to watch a few episodes and dream of Tula and Ren hooking up (c'mon! it soo has to happen!)
But after it occured to me to google it and found soo many sites, it stroke me: even though I'd love it to have continued, after seeing all the imagination exercises 'desperation' drove us all to, I've come to realise it has the magic of an unfinished story: we all have an end to it dear to our hearts, and it's different for everyone. I always figured it one way, and have begun reading stories a million years from what I had in mind. It was pretty cool. Please keep doing it. It's one of my dearest childhood memories, and you have just brought it back to life.
All right, I have to throw my support into the Ren/Tula crowd. The hints are just way too obvious. Anyway, well, I think that the sword is the 13th treasure, and once it is reunited and made whole, it will absorb the power of the other 13 treasures, and make give Ren the power to banish the DD back to the center of the planet. A huge final battle will occur, with Bloth still tring to get his hands on the treasure. Ioz makes Ren and Tula go into the DD's lair, and holds of Bloth as the Wraith is attacked by darkwater, and it appears to go down, along with the Maelstrom. Eventually, Ren reaches the DD, but Tula was delayed by Morpho, whom she beats. Ren fights the DD, and beats him, sending back to the depths of the world, and restoring Octopan. The last scene wouldn't be of Ren and Tula, though, it would be of Ioz, who somehow (inexplicably, because the mystery is cool) survived the destruction of the Wraith and the Maelstrom, and he sails with a new ship for new adventures. It would be cool, that's for sure! Damn it, this show needs to come back... with the birth of Toonami, the popularity of other mature cartoons (thinking Teen Titans, and anime), it would be huge.
I've always thought that in the final episode one of the main characters would perish bravely, most likely Niddler (the weakest and least bravest). The remaining characters would save mer but live with the pain. It would of course have to include the future wedding of Ren and Tula, as King and Queen of Octopon. And possibly the establishment of the united nations of mer, in which Ren appoints Ios as Octopon's representative/ambassador.
As for Bloth, i've thought that he'd probably "turn good" and join Ren in the final dark moments when he realizes that everything will be destroyed (sort of a darth vadar moment/grinch heart growing moment). Bloth and the Maelstrom are destroyed going down fighting of course. So much death and destruction, family fun at its finest, lol.
I just stumbled across this, but I developed a few ideas that I think are interesting.
I've always been a huge fan of the Final Fantasy series.Now, even though the games are amazing, even I am willing to concede that the "Spirits Within" movie had problems. However, the plot of that movie had certain similarities to PoDW. In the movie, they had to collect spirits to combat the alien spirits. While most of the spirits were derived from various natural sources, the final spirit was actually one of the alien spirits. I think it would be thought-provoking, if nothing else, if the 13th treasure were somehow derivative of Dark Water. I'll admit that it's pretty unlikely that the writeres would have intended that, though.
this has always been a theory of mine. ren is so connected with the treasures i wonder if maybe by chance one of the remaining 6 treasures might be inside of him?
Well clearly in the end Tula would have to die. That way Ren would have the emotional boost he needed to beat the new bad guy that appeared right after they found out that there was another treasure. After defeating the 'new bad guy' Ren would find out that the '14th' treasure was never real and all they had to do was go to some uncharted island to truly combine all the treasures and end the whole thing. You must believe me, because CN wouldn't have allowed any of that romance that would make the show so good anyway.
hey, gang! i watched PoDW when it first came on in 1990 when i was four years old and i only ever got to see episodes 1-5 (in fact, i still have them on this really worn out VHS tape that i recorded off of staurday morning cartoons; they're all i have left! *tear*), so my memories of the show are probably sclerosed. Regardless of all that, i must say that Tula is the best, and i am definetly a shipper (do you guys use that term around here?) for the Ioz/Tula camp. Personally, i think Ren is too green for Tula. She needs someone with experience. (so what if Ioz is 30?) Also, she and Ioz have CHEMISTRY, a component which i think is severly lacking between her and Ren. i agree with whoever compared this show to Star Wars. Tula is Leia and Ioz is Hans Solo. I mean, it's so obvious. They hated each other in the beginning, so it only makes sense that they would eventually hook up together in the end. besides, Ren already has everything going for him (he's a prince, once his quest is over he'll rule as king, he'll have his victory, he'll still be rich, young and handsome, yadda, yadda, yadda...) The writers need to throw Ioz zome sort of a bone! (don't take that the wrong way, :P!)
Also, i wouldn't be surprised if Avagon turned out to be Ren's mother. I think that would have been an interesting storyling to develope...
i also wouldn't be shocked if Andorus and Octopon turned out to be sister-kingdoms and tula ended up being some sort of long lost princess and therefore Ren and Tula were really cousins, or something, and therefore could never be together (assuming the citizens of Mer aren't too liberal with their definition for incest...)
anyway, just some food for thought from someone who probably doesn't know what she's talking about...
i really loved the show. it is one the fond memories from my childhood. peace, love and may you never encounter any dark water in your lives!
Too bad someone wont remake this show. Look at Dragon Ball. I heard another company was the first ones to bring it to the US (not funimation). That happend some time in the 80's I think but it failed do to time slot. Then funimation got a hold of it and now look. BIG HIT! Some may be they should try again with PoDW?
Honest to god, Tula and Ioz wouldn't be a good couple, because Ioz is like 35 or something and Tula is 18! HELLO!!! Totally Ren and Tula, the love-birds! I would agree to have cartoon network or somebody make a movie about PODW, because I'm only 14 and watched it when I was younger and still do on Boomerang! They should play it more often though. Ioz should find a ex-pirate or pirate women and execpt her independence and fall deeply in love! Konk should give up with Bloth. Cartoon Network do something great!-Instead of that " NEW cartoons. " Make more episodes of PODW and make everyone happy! Pirates of Dark Water ROCKS!
Tula and Ioz can't end up together. Ioz is 30 and Tula is 18 for one. And in a few episodes the writers hint on the thing between Ren and Tula.
Did anyone else notice that at the start of all the episodes there were the writer's names. And for most of those the names were different. How can so many people write an episode and have it all fit together. And if all those people could write 21 episodes, then why can't someone else out there write another 18 and finish the series?
It seems like they didn't try real hard to keep the show going. It seems kind of half-ass to end after getting just over half way done. People don't just stop in the middle of things. They should follow this all the way to the end.
On the other hand, I think it was kind of good the series never ended. I mean yeah I was rather angry when they didn't finish it but look at how many inventive ideas came from the lack of closure. I think they should have at least continued past just 8 treasures, but i guess thats just the way things go down.
But one thing is for sure, there is always that chance in the back of our heads and hearts that tells us that someday the show will end, whether Ren ends his quest victorious or not, we may never know, but we can always create the perfect ending.
There has to be some way that one of the many PoDW fans out here can talk to David Kirschner or Glenn Leopold, the writer of most of the episodes, or anyone that worked on the show at any point. I bet that the series was finished out on paper, but when the ratings were dropping and the show was cut, they just threw them into a pile and never looked at them again. I'm sure if one of us can find a way to bug up someone that had something to do with the show, then we could all do the same, after a while they would be forced to realize that the show still has a tremendous following, then they would think about bringing it back, of course it is the longest of longshots, but hey, it could happen.
personaly i am starting to agree with the Ioz Tula matchup, and i dont like that...... the thing is Ren is just not a well rounded character he would have had to do some major growing up before he could have been more than a "Little Brother" to Tula i missed alot of the series but i know that much for sure now. As for who Ren would wind up with likely some princess ashame that one woman who had been inlove with his dad died no? that would have been cool maybe i only dreamed that episode but if it was real maybe the DD could buy ren off with her and a new Dark Octopon would grow from the rubble of the old
Ren and Tula all the way. He's a prince for cying out loud. Marrying A prince is like the ultimate goal for women. Diana didn't marry Chuck for his looks thats for sure. Ioz doesn't look like the faithful type anyway. Hell I wouldn't be suprised if he was all ready married.
Lordy, but I miss this series lately. And I've seen so little, but I remember.
I like the nuclearated earth idea, it seems vaguely plausible, but it does take a bit away from the mystique. A colony planet FROM earth that then got nuclearated seems a little more likely. A little genetic manipulation (like that biotransmuter guy), and boom - tons of species of both sentient and nonsentient life.
Furthermore, I think the Treasures' continued evolution would be nifty - from the last one they found in the series, a living being, to the Thirteenth, a gigantic, wise, fierce beast. Not that the interim would all be animals or the like. But a plant here there, a shaped magnet stone, an ancient device...
The Thirteenth Treasure is of course aware of Ren and our daring heros, but uses a long series of mind games on them all before bowing its will.
But I think the best bit would to have all the relationship bits (Ioz/Tula vs. Ren/Tula vs. Ren/Solia, etc...) remain unresolved. Heck, people are gonna fill in those blanks with fanfic anyway.
But yeah. CN should definitely pick this series up. Adult Swim/Toonami audiences would eat it up.
...Bloth really needs a hug.
- Kal (web)
Correct me if I�m wrong but the sword was never reunited in the series, was it? This is ofcours a must way before the end. (Where talking final blow to the heart here, no half-sword would do) And theres ofcourse the much debated isue of Ren-Tula Ioz-Tula endings. I gues we�ll never know... unless you play the game and stick to that ending... eat holy compass you basterd!
WARNING - I'm a slash junkie.
I have this idea for a fanfic where the 13th treasure is feeding off the life force of a trapped Blood Magician. So Ren has to free him and take him back to Octopon, only once freed, the magician's life energy needs to be supported so that he can continue to feed the 13th treasure. So Ren ends up being forced to pledge his soul to the magician in order to return with the treasure intact. So you have two gorgeous bois who HAVE to maintain close contact wwith each other...
And Ioz and Tula get to be the token straight couple. Ren's just too gay to not be gay. Or at least bi.
Ah well, I'll probably end up writing it, whether anyone likes it or not.
- ~Lilith on Narcotics
I really think that they would have eventually found all 13 treasures and I love the ideas I've read here (Ren as the 13th treasure, the compass as the 13th treasure, etc.). They all seem possible. As for the Ren/Tula love match, I don't see it. She's too mature and little too dishonest for him. Ioz would be more her type and I think Ioz would really go for her, too. Theirs isn't a love-at-first-sight romance and they even despise each other at first. But after going through so much together, they've already come to sort of mutual respect that would eventually become love. For Ren and Tula, they're more like brother and sister or just friends--their chemistry isn't like that of Tula and Ioz, who make the show for me. Ren is just too good and self-absorbed with his quest. He's actually a very boring character to me. Tula and Ioz have a little badness that makes them a lot more interesting.
Darkwater is like (bear with this analogy) an anchient mayan temple....You have a story that unfolds but is interupted by that certain mayan's death, but the story is picked up by anouther mayan historian and finished the way he see's it. That basicaly describes the series that ended then is finished by a video game. What needs to happen is fans need to A. Protest Cartoon Network or whoever holds Darkwater's license to make more or at least finish the series or B. become "archeoligest" and put the series and the video games story togther and have some of these artist that can draw the Darkwater characters and make like a manga or comic, whatever you want to call it to at least finish the story..Now some of the story will have to be made up and thats where all these fan fiction people come in, there can be a group of fan fiction people who make up the story and can bounce around each other ideas for the story (kinda like a real tv show) and come up with the best story to put in that manga. Then the series can finally be told then think of all the possibilitys for a new Darkwater series! If any one knows roms and sites like Dejap where groups of people put their talents togther to translate good japanese games into english, well this is like that. If this does happen may i suggest that the mangas be kept free so the popularity can spread and for the people who do this maybe you can find jobs for what you do...like an artis can point to the manga and say "this is what i did" to a comic company thats looking to hire someone. This of course is just an idea for those who like Darkwater to actually do something other than to just say "oh that was a good show too bad its gone." Plan A. or plan B. is at least some form of action to take to see this wonderfull series to the end.
I throw my towel into the Ioz/Tula camp. There is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much tension between the two. Ren (I actually hate saying this) is too good and noble, plus he's going to be king. And regardless of how nice it would be, kings don't get to choose their mates.
On second thought can they all find seperate loves? It almost seems... naughty if they stay "in house".
- Go Dorito (web)
I think that Ren had to get together with Tula (guy gets girl, let's be serious, Ioz is a swashbuckler, and is not that serious about settling down, he still has to consider his own hide, being a pirate...)
By the end of the story, suddenly, reunited, the gems of Rul would summon a new Messianic age, one of understanding and good, maybe a parable and suggestion of our future.
The Sega Genesis game actually takes the story to its conclusion, though it's pretty light on details beyond the Dark Dweller being imprisoned again by the Treasures of Rule. I think the rest of it would go like this: Ren would return to a rejuvenated Octopan and assume the throne, marrying his old squeeze Tula and forming a sister kingdom on Andorus. Ioz and Zoolie would probably get a crew together and go back to pirating on the Wraith, probably having a playful enemy relationship with Ren when he'd inevitably be called on to do something about them, Niddler would go home to Pandawa as a hero, or maybe even back to Bobo Island and hook up with Zena again. As I recall from one episode, Primus was a prisoner of the Dark Dweller so he'd be set free, and Bloth and his crew would spend the rest of their lives on a rock pile in an Octopan prison.
- Gladrius (web)
(in a gir voice, which she could supposedly do if she didn't have such a cold!) Well here I am, ready to present to you my views!
(And I'm a little bit like a news anchor in the respect!) Personally I've never really taken the time to sit down and try to figure out what might have happened, I was too busy watching similiar shows. What about Cowboy bebop? You have a cute guy on a quest, a girl with risky outfits who has own agenda, a creppy looking guy with a past, an animal sidekicks, and a crazy redhead who is essentially there for laughs. (I love Ed, Ed, she is my fave!) Anyway, now that thats out of my caffenaited system...I always sort of imagined that if Ren really did get with anyone it would have been Ioz's sister. They kind of seemed to have chemistry, (And did you see that funny expression on his face at the end of the episode? It was priceless, (unfortuneatley it could not be purchased via mastercard!) I would loved to see an episode where she showed up again and Ren kind of acted on his emotions, of course we all know Ioz really would have stepped up as the older brother he is, and they would have just been some good old fashioned hillarity. You could have had Tula and Niddler, BLoth the rest of the cast just sort of staring a bit flabbergasted, thinking to themselves "what the...Noy Gi tat..." Besides you know you want to see Ren being chased by Ioz while Mr. Gruff and rough himself is muttering(actually shouting louder than a Boeing 747 takeoff) some nasty unrepeatables! Come on you know you'd love to see it!
Mystical Radical Ed ed.
(come back Ein!!!!!)
I think that Ren and Tula would have to hook up at the end of the series. I'm saving Ioz for my original character:) Anywho, I think that the Compass is the 13th treasure but, it must take the life of a noble heart, or something like that, to have enough power to seal the Dark Water for good. Ren, of course, goes and gives his life but, Tula, Ioz and Niddler won't let him and they too give up their lives together. The Compass then speaks and says "That in honor of your courage, I will not take thy's life.."and it seals off the Dark Water, yet Bloth stills lives and will do something...um..evil or whatever he does. I don't know:p and in the end Ioz takes the Wraith and sails off searching for other adventures and treasures, Ren and Tula get married and Niddler...I have no idea what to do with him??? And of course everyone lives happily ever after until something else threatens Mer. FIN That's my happy sap-filled ending...ain't it grand?
The Ioz and Tula scenerio? Possible. The Ren and Tula scenerio? Most likely. I'm suprised nobody hinted at the Ren and Ioz scenerio... just kidding! (You gotta wonder why Ioz never liked women aboard his ship, though...) As much as I would have like to see Tula and Ioz get together, the show was hinting at a Tula/Ren relationship. What the show should have done was either make Solia a permanent member of the crew or introduce a female character Ioz definately couldn't stand (Then we know there was an attraction). As for the rest of the quest, I would have loved to see Bloth get the treasures at the very end, and have him accidently save Mer. Think about it. Okay, that's probably really dumb, but I see the humor in it :P. As for the last treasure, it would have to be Ren. I know I said Ren and Tula would hook up, but what if Ren was the missing link to the treasure? He was the guiding light of Octopon, and he always was acting "Too good to be true". What if Ren became godlike and sealed up the darkwater? That'll mean a romance between him and Tula that could never be, and she could end up with Ioz...
- Leia (web)
The first thing, Merreck is a genius. I mean, if you ask me I think PoDW blows all the other shows out of the water.
Secondly, Ren and Tula probably would have hooked up. Yeah, they would have. BUT! They shouldn't have, I mean Ioz seemed to care for Tula even though he tried to tell himself that he didn't. Which, Ioz getting the Wraith afterwards, is a great idea. Ah, I shoudln't even be posting. I have a script written. I'm just gonna' get Andorus to put that on here. I do have a movie recommendation, haha, The Princess Bride. It will remind you so much of PoDW. For now, I am gone.
Ok first off let's get serious, if and when they ever did finish the show it's pretty basic that Tula and Ren would be getting togetehr, period. I highly doubt they would drop that many clues only to go in a completely different direction. As for Ren's sword I bet at some point later in the series they'd find they other half and reforge it, hell that's what happens in the videogame so it makes sense. Can't speculate on anything else however the sghow is now on late night on cartoon network! (JOY!) I thinking about sending an email to CN and ask real nicely if they would ever consider putting it on Toonami, c'mon it would be a HUGE hit! It's the EXACT kind of audience that the show originally aimed for, being alikened to in maturity to DBZ. My God it might even spark enough popularity to start the series again! Hey when you dream you gotta dream big!
Yo yo yo, Ian Jones here. Huge fan of the series. I have a few of the actio figures and even have the 6-hour marathon CN showed on tape. I've got situations and concerns that don't concern most people, so I found my way here..
1. The Maelstrom is made almot entirely of bones..they look very similar like they were part of the same creature, but some of them are just HUGE. Like the cluster that makes up the opening jaw in th front..there are some pretty big creatures in the series, but nothing that wicked. In one episode, while trying to make a very sudden turn, Bloth refers to it as a "twisted relic of a Leviathan", but..the Leviathans shown aren't anywhere near that size or with anything close to that bone structure, even the big ones. I wanna know what that thing was before it was a ship, and how anyone managed to kill it.
2. I never agreed with the Ren/Tula theory, or the Tula/Ioz theory. Ren and Tula did seem to like each other a little, but..I never thought it would work out. I was always in favor of Ren/Solia. Now THAT would've been interesting. He didn't ever seem to mind her attention before he found out she was such a thief. And at the end of the series, there was never an doubt Ren would become King of Octopan..how amusing would it be with Solia trying to adjust to life as a Queen? As for Tula and Ioz, I always saw Tula hooking up with some Ecomancer guy and going off on do-gooder crusades to help the sick and needy. Ioz, on the other hand, would be given the Wraith once the quest was over and Ren didn't need it anymore. He'd continue life as a pirate in search of that one big retirement score. Bachelor for life, baby. As for Niddler, well..who really cares, let's say he chokes to death on a Minga Mellon seed or something.
As for the other treasures, I think they'd all just be different cool-looking gems and crystals. And I have to agree with the previously stated idea on the compass being the 13'th treasure. Top notch, E. Biscardi, had that very same notion myself.
Also, as a final note, I think somewhere along the line before the end, I think Ren would get a sword..the broken sword/dagger thing works fine for a side-arm, but..it's ridiculous to rely on that against giant scimitars and such..leave the dagger in the boot for when you've got no other choice, use a sword in all other situations. We've seen the guy's arms, life on the high seas has obviously beefed him up at least enough to use a sword of some kind. Who agrees with me on this?
- Ian Jones
Pirates of Dark Water was first broadcast in 1991, correct? Does anyone know when they first got the idea for it?
This does NOT mean that I respect PDW any less, but I believe that it may have been influenced by _Merovingen Nights_, created by my favorite author, C.J. Cherryh, the first book of which was published in 1985. The city of Merovin, on which it centers (the planet's name is Merovingen), is very similar to the cities like Janda Town and Calinda Town in PDW. Basically, the planet was kind of on the edges of human colonized space, but another race used to live there and came back and wanted the humans to leave. Most evacuated, but some insisted on staying. Then came the Scouring, in which lots of stuff was destroyed, including most technology.
"It is an advanced technology reduced to an earlier technology and hindered by an artificial cap, ie, that advanced technology is frowned upon."
I believe that it is unlikely that this is a coincidence.
So anyway, (it's hard to remember, but I think I thought this even before reading Merovingen Nights) I think that my main theory about Mer was that it WAS a different world from Earth, if only because of the Dark Water in the core of the planet versus molten rock. I'm thinking it could be a similar thing to Merovingen Nights (or for those of you familiar with it, to Dragonriders of Pern); it is an abandoned and/or forgotten colony world. It may or may not have had life before humans came. It was colonized by a polyethnic group of humans and probably at least some animals from Earth were introduced. If it had some life on it previously, then it is possible that monkey-birds, mud people, or others predated human settlement on the planet, and either the species reached some sort of understanding or the humans used "cowboy diplomacy". Referring to Niddler as a "mutant beast", though, makes me think that monkey-birds are a relatively new life form. There was a Scouring-like event, a nuclear holocaust, a retrovirus that could cross species boundaries that, while mostly resulting in stillbirths, also resulted in some new and viable species, some barely-changed humans, lots of new animals.... Maybe the more human-looking people such as Ren, Ioz and Tula, were exposed less to whatever-it-was and mutated-looking people such as Jote, Mantus, Konk, and Bloth were closer to the center.
Also: what do people think? Is the monkey-bird queen really the "Mother of Us All" for monkey-birds (like in bees), or is that a figurative term? In each village (of which there are two, Pandawa and the Mobo village) you only see one adult female; the rest have male voices.
Oh, and I think that Ioz and Tula will get together, if they haven't already, or if there isn't a threesome (who knows what the creators had in mind but couldn't put in the series?)
"'Strange... I had always hoped that if Eilonwy were betrothed to anyone it would be--yes, well, what I mean to say is that despite all the squabbling and bickering between the two of you, I had rather expected...'"
--Fflewddur Fflam, from _The Prydain Chronicles_ by Lloyd Alexander
I feel like most of the time their arguments are kind of a surface-thing to try to dissipate the sexual tension between them, though in the beginning it was more serious dislike, and I think that sometimes when tensions are high in the crew the dislike turns serious and overwhelms their other feelings. But I'm not sure whether or not their relationship would be serious/committed, or just the product of sharing one small boat. I feel like Ren is also attracted to her, but in some ways it's...I don't know, I get the feeling that he kind of likes her, but not enough that he actually wants to act upon it, like it's not love OR a strong sexual attraction. I think he would pair up with a sweet-country-gal type.
I so love the show, I wish it continued.
Anyway, my thoughts are that if any romantic pairings occur it will ultimately be with Ioz and Tula. Ren and Tula just don't work, despite the hints throughout the series. If anything, there are subtle hints that Ioz has begun to like Tula, but refuses to admit it even to himself. (Remember "Andorus" and his remark at seeing Tula in her new, skimpy outfit?! And how he eventually acts slightly more respective and kinder? Hmm?)
I'm not sure how the series would end in detail, but the DD should be gone forever and Bloth along with him, (possibly as his last victim?) And I would really like to see Tula's powers steadily grow to kick-butt levels throughout the second/third season.
Well here's my little take what happens after episode 21. Now first I've got to say this, now I know this might piss some of you I want Ren and Tula to get together fans off, but guess what? In my story it doesn't happen cause he's NOT MAN ENOUGH FOR HER! She get's with a mysterious traveler, who teaches her to perfect her echomantic powers. Don't get me wrong, I love Ren, but in my story it just doesn't happen. In my story they liked eachother but they never really acted on it.
Ren gets tired of his life on Octipon and make a journey to earth. He learns about the mysterious planet earth from an old Octipon storyteller. He meets a lady there, and they have a child together, a girl. This story centers around that girl. It's also a crossover of Sailor Moon, because Ren's daughter, Beonka, happends to be the new Sailor Moon, with all five of the Sailor Scout's powers. I entitled this story, The Prince's Daughter., and it mainly deals will her discovery of her father's past on Mer. The story is kind of on an emotional level, but the main event is when Beonka makes the journey of her life into the world of Mer. She accidently fell into a golden portal, brought on by an abundance of magic in Mer.
If they'd gotten Tula together with Ioz (WHY?!?!) instead of Ren like everyone expected to happen, they should have introduced the daughter of one of Primus' captains (maybe Avagon's daughter? I once wrote a really sucky fanfic involving such a character) as a love interest for Ren.
I also think Ren or someone would have ended up dissolving the Dark Dweller the way dark water turns to foam when touched by one of the treasures.
- Qit-el Remel
Some of the jewels have changed and some have not, Ren and the gang spend the next few months getting them all and bringing them back to Octopon. BUT. The last 13th jewel can`t be found and after so much searching he finds out that the last jewel is in fact the one that King Primus had around his neck, this means Ren would have to go back to the dark dweller to get it back. This means his father could still be alive. I know this might not tie in with how the jewels were lost etc, but I think it would make a good ending, he could also find Avagon as well. Why do all stories have to end sad, would`nt it be cool if everyone got back and had a big party.
All the treasures are now living creatures, but it turns out that they return to their original form when brought to the room where the new seal is being formed. Ren and co. collect them all slowly, amid many adventures, bringing each to Octopon as they find it. Finally, they arrive with the last one, at which point not only do Bloth and crew, Morpho included, stage a huge attack on Octopon, but the Dark Dweller makes a personal appearance. Ren fights the Dark Dweller for the final time, trying to place the last treasure, leaving Ioz to fight Bloth and the others to pair up however they choose to. Finally, Ren succeeds, at which point the Dark Dweller's power is broken and he's banished forever. Morpho dissolves on the spot, seconds before killing his current opponent, and Bloth is pulled down by the Dark Dweller as its final victim. Some of his crew (including Mantus) are dead by then, and the rest (including Konk) flee and scatter, never to be heard from again. Jenna is found to be mortally wounded, so there's a heart-rending goodbye scene. Later, Ren takes his place as king of Octopon, and everybody celebrates. Ioz, Tula, and Niddler are invited to stay as his advisors, but most of them have places to go back to, so they might not accept. Whether or not they do, and whether Tula ever gets romantically involved with anyone, is never revealed, so fans can speculate forever.
Now to be honest I've always thought that the 13th treasure of rule would some how be the compass. My thinking was that the only way the treasures could be found was by the main treasure that held all the others toghter. I also believed that Tula and Ren would always end up toghter (I'm a hopeless romatic).
- E. Biscardi
(Note: this entry is more of a joke--I always like coming up with scientific principles that explain mystical things just to see if I can. I don't necessarily believe that this was what was intended. ;o))
Hehe, I was watching the movie clips that Dave/Primus sent me, and my roommate came up behind me. And in "The Quest," when Ren's rescuing the "old man" on the beach and tells him they should get inside and Primus grabs his hand and they started glowing, she demanded to know why they were glowing. And then it hit her--radiation! The jewels were radioactive, and they rubbed off on Primus. And then I started elaborating, which led to...
Mer: The future Earth. There was a nuclear holocaust that wiped out all technology (it left remnants, though--so ALMOST all) and destroyed a lot of the land/melted the icecaps, leading to a watery planet ("Mer" being Latin for water). And the Thirteen Treasures of Rule are (according to my roommate) hardened and crystallized pieces of the bomb. It took the people many, many years to rebuild, and when they did, Earth was no more... *ominous music*
This holocaust spread radiation so far and so much that it mutated lots of things--it gave Andorus and its people powers (hence, the ecomancers), it caused the tilted eyes, it mutated the animals (Alomar is a mutated lizard, monkey-birds, those huge crabs in the last episode, etc.), and it created "beings" like Konk, Bloth, and Joat (the guy with the horsehead that's in 1 episode).
The Compass is a "fiddled-with" Geiger counter. It'll point out the Treasures since they're such condensed pieces of radiation, and because it was "fiddled with," it'll shoot out a beam of light to pinpoint them.
If you notice, the characters can jump higher and farther than regular humans. This is because a missile impacted with the moon (keep in mind, this is in the FAR future) and broke it into two pieces. One, I'm assuming the bigger one, got pulled closer to the planet because of its bigger size--and its pull on the planet released the "tension" of the planetary gravitational pull.
Okay, we don't exactly have much proof of what EXACTLY is in the center of the earth, so my roommate figured there must be living creatures down there. When the nuclear holocaust started, the Marianas Trench was cracked even farther open, and a particularly evil creature down there got curious and came up. It met with oil from a fuel tanker spill AND the radiation, and voila. :o) Its minions are similar. And the Dark Water is oil sucked in to the center and mutated, since the creature took in so much radiation that it'll spread it on to everything.
The Bell of the First Sound and the panels inside the lighthouse holding the Compass were touched by the radiation enough to mildly mutate the molecular structure, but not enough to change the appearance. So the material became more absorbent and a bit gravitational.
The material the Treasures were made of basically repels (and more) the Dark Dweller's interesting combination, which explains why they're so crucial to putting the Dark Dweller down.
- Leila and me
Ok, here is what happened, I swear! After getting the last treasure, Ren is caught by the DD, but not before throwing the treasures to his companions. After a brief struggle and what seems forever of running, Ren gets away, sealing up the DD forever. He escapes, but with one problem: The DD didn't let him get away so easily. Even though it was only a day for him after he escapes, for the outside world it has been 15 years. Tula, Ioz, and Niddlar had pretty much returned to their normal lives, believing Ren had actually died this time, and went back to their homes. Ren appears back on Octopon and finds it fully restored and Jenna ruling the land (well, moreor less. It's mostly a type of Democracy.) Jenna sends messages to Tula, Niddlar, and Ioz, who only come because of a small hope it might be true. After a really long, heart-warming meeting, and telling of tales, Ren is put a King of Octopon and marries Tula a few months later. They had three kids: 2 boys (Zoolie, after Ioz's bud and Jept) and a girl (Yes Andorus, Rena.)
- Dawning Light
According to yesterdayland.com, a fairly reliable site, the show went off the air because kids simply weren't watching. The more mature themes were a little too early to hit it off with the kids (oh if only they had done it a few years later, like around when X-men started to get popular!). Also, because of a new kind of animation episodes cost nearly twice as much to produce. Not a problem if enough kids were watching, but otherwise. *shrugs* It's sad. I consider Pirates of Dark Water one of _the_ best American cartoons ever made.
BTW, it was on the news just last week that the former employees of Fil-Cartoons (Hanna-Barbera affiliates, as I hope you remember) still haven't received their separation pay. Apparently, Fil-Cartoons experienced a traumatic layoff era in the early 90's and some of the "laid off" employees were promised severance pay that never came. I wonder if that has anything to do with Dark Water, etc. going off the air...
After more adventures, yes, Ren and the crew, the entire crew together, even Niddler, together defeat the Dark Water, and send the Dark Dweller deep down inside the planet Mer, once and for all. Planetwide, a celebration occurs, as everyone is now freed of the dreaded and evil dark water. Who does this leave as the ultimate evil to be fought though? Bloth. Everyone he'd made angry by killing someone they liked or cared for, robbed, plundered, ransacked, or done anything else unsavory to comes back to get their own justice on him. Bloth then has to find someone to stop them, as he does value his own neck above all else. Only with Ren's word protecting him is he allowed to go on his way, but his power is diminished forever. Toola and Ioz might wind up together, as they both seem to counter-balance each other well, and in the end, Ren gets to wed a true princess of Octopod, one of the daughters of the barons nobel to his father, the king, whome his father sent off with seven of the jewels to protect them and keep them safe. And Niddler not only becomes the king of the monkeybirds, but also bring pride to his kind and ends their slavery.
I always believed that if Hanna-Barbera had ever finished the series, they would have eneded it with Ren and Tula together. It just has to be! I mean, the creators of the show set them up, two mutually attractiuve young people together in a confined space. That just has to add up to something. Anyway, I feel the series would end with, after of course all the hubbub of them finding all the treasures one way or another, Ren and Tula's wedding.
- Star Dragon
Okay, first off let me state unequivocally that it is IOZ and Tula who wind up together. Okay, that having been said, I figure the ending has to reintroduce Zoolie, which adds to symmetry as you now have perfect hero/villain parings (Dark Dweller/Ren, Bloth/Ioz, Morpho/Tula, Niddler/Konk, and Zoolie/Mantus). Other than that, I always figured Bloth and Morpho would beat Ren to the last treasure or else snatch all the treasures at the very end. Then the Dark Dweller would pop up in the flesh and outside of his domain. The villains would be on the verge of winning, but there would be a classic "villain supremacy struggle" between Bloth and Morpho, one of whom wants to give the treasures to the DD, the other of whom wants to rule the Dark Water himself. This would give the heroes the opportunity they needed to step in and save the day at the last minute, yadda yadda yadda. And I'd like to find out the whole backstory for Ioz like we (more or less) got for Tula in the early episodes.
To me,the plot and characters of PODW always closely resembled those of Star Wars (It's what first interested me in the cartoon) so I always pictured an ending somewhat like Star Wars. I thought Bloth would be revealed to be Ren's uncle or something. I have made story summaries of my ideas for a few episodes. In one, the group learns of a "dark treasure" which can cancel the effects of the 13 treasures of Rule. In another, there is a war on Andorus between the ecomancers and the "necromancers" (the dark-side ecomancers). The ecomancers triumph, but Andorus is ravaged by the war and Tula decides to stay on the island to help rebuild instead of continuing on Ren's quest. I guess it's not the romantic plot twist others had in mind, but I personally just can't see Ren and Tula together.
Tula and Ren have to hook up !!! it has to happen , i even wrote fan fiction about it !!!!!
The thirteenth treasure of Rule! I always had the idea the 13th treasure would be a person with the treasure for their heart. If Ren did marry Tula then the 13th would marry Ioz and she'd be Rens sister. (hmm maybe a TWIN?)
- Becky Roe
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